Learning Game Design with Arcade Berg

1. 

   Jesper
   August 21st, 2009 - 09:11

   Damnit man! I’m giving it all I’ve got. Just need a load of investors.

   However, in the mean time you might want to check out Battlegrounds, which really is quite different.
2. 

   Arshak
   August 21st, 2009 - 12:59

   Of the top of my head: Unit, behaviours that are selected/cuztomized before battle.
   Ie. You guys attack the one with the most HP, You guys attack ranged etc, etc… Its not a solution but might help remove the frantic clicking from the fighting phase to the more calm strategy phase.
3. 

   Arcade
   August 21st, 2009 - 13:10

   @Arshak
   It’s an idea. It could help creating more of an gameplay-flow. However that doesn’t help me react to sudden events on the battlefield. That is, if I understand you correctly.
4. 

   Arshak
   August 21st, 2009 - 13:37

   Well we are trying to minimize the frantic clicking on the battlefield not take them away all together, correct?
5. 

   Arcade
   August 21st, 2009 - 14:12

   Touché
6. 

   gutek
   August 21st, 2009 - 21:36

   this is a hard one. i’m gonna list a few ideas that are floating around in my head:

   - eliminate or at least minimize indirect controls

   - unit selection via quickbar, world of warcraft style (no clicking on moving objects)

   - just squads. no single unit selection.

   - minimize unit movement

   - no unit production, unit decks (like in battleforge)

   - health regeneration on units
7. 

   Arcade
   August 22nd, 2009 - 22:26

   @gutek
   I think you have some valid points.

   I’m thinking that the best result would probably come from starting all over again from the beginning, instead of changing what we have.

   But as I said, I have no idea how.
8. 

   Jonas
   August 31st, 2009 - 17:30

   I think you’re starting from the wrong direction. You’re starting with a complex system and try to simplify it.

   Try instead to start from zero and add complexity when you have the core mechanics down. It’s very easy to make a game more complex but you need your system of control first.

   For instance: if you have 5 units that control perfectly, give them two different weapons to choose from and the possibility of adding a shield. Instant exponential complexity of strategy.
9. 

   Mike C
   September 15th, 2009 - 20:25

   Perhaps an approach would be an increased role for AI (stay with me here).

   I can envision a chain-of-command idea, where you are at the general-level, and you have computer controlled commanders beneath you. Pre-game could involve ordered priority lists (I found FFXII clever in this regard) per commander. Units would be assigned to squads dynamically as they are built… again based on task and priority.

   I think, ideally, this would free up your vision (which is always the challenge for me) to focus on the battlefield broadly. I think you could preserve micro as a game element as well by allowing the general to take over for a commander on the fly… but if the macro is solid and the AI is sufficient, the necessity of micro might be minimalized (perhaps even just a matter of “fun” rather than being strictly and markedly advantageous).
10. 

    Arcade
    September 15th, 2009 - 20:30

    I think I see your point, but if I understand you correctly there is still the problem of the player with the über-micro will still always win, unless the AI is at an extreme level. But hey, it could happen.

    But indeed, the vision is one of the biggest problem with this, and playing on “over-view” would help with this.

    And in truth, IF the AI were to present itself adequate, then it might work.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
11. 

    Alex
    April 8th, 2010 - 21:12

    Have you tried the “total war”-series? I know it’s less of an “gather resources spit out unit” but its on the battlefield you are truly alive, don’t you think?
12. 

    Arcade
    April 8th, 2010 - 21:47

    @Alex
    Yes, in a way you’re truly alive. I really liked Shogun: Total War. But it’s the same problem. I had all these units that I always knew exactly what I wanted them to do, but I seldom could wrap my head around controlling all the troops in an effective manner.
13. 

    alex
    May 20th, 2010 - 18:43

    hi! i work on a design document for quite a while now, which covers a lot of gameplay features i found here. and now i am presenting you the main problem in creating new rts gameplay: you can’t prototype in just a few weeks! this fact drives me crazy because you have to code all gameplay before you can fiend out if it works or not.
    i searched a lot for rts-engines but either they are too readymade so you can’t manipulate the core mechanics without hacking the hole thing (e.g. spring) or they stuck at prealpha level.

    have you any suggestions to solve this problem?
    cheers!
14. 

    Arcade
    May 20th, 2010 - 19:37

    @alex
    Hey!

    Well, the best thing that comes to mind would be the Starcraft 2 Editor. I haven’t tried it myself, but you do really radical stuff with it, using only the editor. Maybe you can try and get your hands on a beta-key which I THINK you get if you pre-order the game.

    There are many youtube-videos on different things people have made with it, as well as some demos from the devs.

    You can find one here:
    http://arcadeberg.com/causerie/blizzards-new-editor/

    Other than that, I don’t know what’s fast and what’s not. I think you can mod C&C: Generals, but I don’t know if you can change the core mechanics at all.

    If you want to create something from scratch, I recommend Unity3D which you can use for free and get at unity3d.com.

    Lemme know how it goes!

    Regards,
    Arcade
15. 

    alex
    May 21st, 2010 - 10:08

    thx for you reply.

    i have already the starcraft-beta, but it consists only of a multiplayer-agent.. there is no stuff included like the editor. the videos around (i think) are made by blizzard employees with deep knowledge of the editor-mechanics.

    but the thing is: i dont know if modding an existing rts helps if you want to change _controlling_ mechanics. for example: i have developped a mechanic called autoselecting.. this is how it works:
    - you select a group and move to battle
    - in battle you want to do quick movement micro (with your melee for example)
    - select unit a, hold down SHIFT rightclick to move unit a
    - next unit to a gets autoselected, rightlick to move unit b
    - next unit to b gets autoselected, rightclick to move unit c

    so you do 4 clicks instead of 6 and your mouse cursor targets at area you want to move instead of shuffeling forth and back like crazy.
    this is just one of the simplier technique which isnt so simple to mod because its nothing that can be done by altering some behavior scripts. maybe im wrong.. if you know that someting like this is possible.

    @unity3d: unity3d looks nice and you can quickly develop a fps or 3rd person platformer, but if you want to implement a (2d) rts game with 3d graphics.. it just gets messy because the whole shiny editor thing helps nothing. there is only one (amateur) rts-project out there mady with unity.. and it died after unit selection and movement.

    so main problem still exists: prototyping rts-mechanics.
    maybe modding is best approach but me and my team never really done that before.

    hey isnt this problem worth a post in your blog? )
    cheers!

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